<![CDATA[Origins United

<![CDATA[Origins United - Blog]]>Wed, 27 May 2026 09:38:25 -0700Weebly<![CDATA[Did Jesus create "Old Wine"? ]]>Sat, 11 Mar 2017 15:29:01 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/did-jesus-create-old-wine

Did Jesus create "Old Wine"?
A supernaturalist explores the issue of Old Earth vs Young Earth

Over the years I have had many conversations with N. P. Evolutionists, Theistic Evolutionists, and Old Earth Creationists, many of whom I consider friends and value for their challenges, insights and search for truth.

Please Define That...
Natural Progressive Evolutionists(NPE): billions of years, cosmological evolution, molecules to man biological evolution. Dirt (molecules) to life, simple to complex. Denies catastrophic global processes such as Noah’s Flood.

Natural - Only what man can observe is real - naturalism - no supernatural - outer dimensional beings (God, ghosts, demons, angels etc).
Progressive - simple to complex, life from non life, mutations + natural selection, genetic drift, adaptation = greater informational complexity and genetic (DNA) language / programing
Evolution - change over time, but is that change degenerative or progressive? Speciation of Kinds into genetic impoverishment and extinction?

Theistic Evolutionists: God began deep time progressive evolutionary processes, the designer behind (kind of like the Engineers from the movie Prometheus), and let the "evolutionary" process run for billions of years. Denies catastrophic global processes such as Noah’s Flood.

Old Earth Creationists: God created, but used billions of years. no progressive evolution - not in fossil record or in genetics / biology, but billions of years of stellar evolution, and billions of years of life and geologic process on earth. Denies catastrophic global processes such as Noah’s Flood.

When it comes to the age of the earth/universe question, I first respond that I am neither young earther or old earther, I am a Supernaturalist. Second, to accept the label “Young Earth” is to concede redefinition, old is relative to comparison, such as fast and slow.

What is a supernaturalist? It is all about Who we claim is the Creator, Yahweh, the Christ, we claim to worship as the author of the Bible. The Bible clearly communicates this Being to be the only eternal, immortal, outer-dimensional being, who superseeds space, time and matter, for they are His creation.
I am a supernaturalist, because I serve the ultimate supernatural being.
Supernatural Creationist - Degenerative Evolutionist (SC_DE)
There is change, speciation, adaptation, mutations, natural selection, but this results in tuning, stasis and degeneration not in a progressive creation of features and genetic information. Genetic entropy - speciation to extinction.

Back to the tile of this post and the question….
Did Jesus created old wine?
AKA, What is a supernatural act of God, and how would it be viewed by naturalistic science?

Okay, The gospels record a few of the “miraculous” supernatural acts of Jesus - Emanuelle. I say a few, because the writers claim there were many more. John 21:25

One act of Jesus I find interesting is the first as we have record of. The wedding where Jesus turns water to wine.
Say you came to the party with a naturalist “evolutionary” materialist friend. That friend who doesn’t believe in anything supernatural. You’re at this great wedding, but the wine runs out, some people are really embarrassed, then you hear this Jesus guy ask for a lot of stone jars of water.

So if you believe all this about the supernatural acts of Jesus ministry on earth, than why don’t those same principles apply to his supernatural acts of creation found in Genesis?

Your naturalist friend has to use the bathroom, but you stay and before your very eyes the water is changed into wine, really good wine. Your naturalist friend comes back from the facilities and you naturally shout out, or blaber out the story of the miracle. But your scientifically - materialistic minded friend doesn't believe. He wants to test the wine, determine it’s age, even genetically test it to see what grapes / vinyard it came from. Would the Wine that was water a few minutes ago appear scientifically old? Well if Jesus could supersede time and natural processes in other miracles, like healing a cut off ear in minutes, healing sick people instantly , regenerating dysfunctional organs, such as eyes. Or how hard is this, bringing dead cells and whole people back to life, which I have to argue is not scientifically, naturalistically possible, than with all that said. The Wine was old, aged, fermented at least to some extent, organic. What’s my point, and why does it matter?

Note: OLD WINE? https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html
Throughout the passage, the Greek word translated "wine" is oinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic... the same word that is used in Ephesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage of oinos in 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice. excerpt from article

God’s supernatural acts are done in immediacy, supernaturally and fully formed and functioning. Every example I could find in the Bible when God claims to act supernaturally or there is ample contextual evidence of Him doing a supernatural act, that act or “miracle” happens in immediacy, fast, defying naturalistic time-filled processes. Second, other natural laws or processes may be superseded. And third, the act of God whether Jesus or the Father results in a fully formed and functioning system, healing, or form. The wine was all the way wine, not water in process of becoming wine over days or years.

So if you believe all this about the supernatural acts of Jesus ministry on earth, than why don’t those same principles apply to his supernatural acts of creation found in Genesis? It was Jesus who did the Creation, aka the Godhead.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Ephesians 3:9"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

Hebrews 1:2"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Was creation a natural process or a supernatural process? or a mix? The Bible adequately describes both - Jesus incarnation/ inception - supernatural. His gestation in Mary as a baby and birth - natural. The plagues on Egypt and against their gods could be a mix as well.

Were Adam and Eve fully formed functioning human beings created directly by God from dust/rib or evolved primate / animal- humans who came from lower primate parents or animals?

Were there fully formed and functioning creatures - originally created kings or greater ancestors from whom all creatures alive today have adapted / speciated and experienced degenerative evolution, many to become extinct when their gene pool became so depleted that they could no longer adapt to their environment and natural selection removed features they weren't using for survival, like poodles or cheetahs.
- See http://www.originsunited.com/degeneration-the-end-of-evolution-theory.html

Were there fully formed and functioning eco-systems, geo-systems of the earth, or did those arise by chance processes, undirected…?

Was the cosmos a fully formed and functioning system? Or did it evolve via stellar evolution - big bang - chance. See my notes on an old and young universe - could a day on earth = millions of years out in space? Time Dilation Theory below

I will cite the Bible on how God claimed to have created. He claims that creation was supernatural, as a result of his direct actions, from nothing.

He spoke, word of God - supernatural acts, just as Jesus spoke.
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Revelation 4:11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”
https://www.openbible.info/topics/creation

He formed and spread
Hebrews 10:1 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;

Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:

Jeremiah 10:12 It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.

Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

Isaiah alludes to how rapidly Creation may have occurred
Isaiah 48:2-17 the God of Israel; the Lord of hosts is his name.
3 “The former things I declared of old; they went out from my mouth, and I announced them; then suddenly I did them, and they came to pass.
5 I declared them to you from of old, before they came to pass I announced them to you, lest you should say, ‘My idol did them, my carved image and my metal image commanded them.’
12 “Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.
13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens;
16 Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.” And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit. 17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God,

Adam claims he was alone, and found no other creature like him, he claims Eve was the mother of all humans.

There are hundreds more verses on Origins, I will soon be releasing Genesis Harmonized: Gathering the Bible on Origins. http://www.originsunited.com/genesis-harmonized.html

Claiming Jesus can be supernatural in his ministry, but not in His creation of the universe is disenginuious, and disrespectful and at worst making ourselves out to be the proclaimers of reality and to know better than God how thing were created.
God could have created instantly, with days or over millions of years? A supernaturalist will answer, it could have been days or millennia, but God is not limited to my understanding of science or reality.
The real question is... What kind of a Being does God claim to be, and how did He say he did it (creation)?

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Are you really ready to say, “God you can only do things the way I understand them to be done.” Are you ready to make God the plow-horse of naturalistic evolution? Pulling creation through the eons of time; through chance, death, disease, suffering to what we have today? By that definition, creation is never finished - evolution continues, and If there never was a real Eden - a designed world of beauty, harmony and life, that was destroyed by the rebellion of Humanity. Than what are Christians looking forward to? The Bible claims Heaven will be a place where Eden is restored. But if Eden was a place of death, disease, mutations, struggle for life, chance, decay, pain, suffering, than what kind of restoration is that? Because there never was a real Eden, there never was a real fall, Genesis either talks about real things or it talks about fake things, fairy tales meant to share spiritual truths, but if those truths are illustrated by fantasy, we are to be most pitied among men. There is no resurrection and restoration, for that is the ultimate supernatural act, defying naturalistic processes, and materialistic science.
Even Richard Dawkins understood that either man determines reality (a strict naturalistic scientific world view) or God does, a revealed supernatural world view). saw video, trying to track down quotation on this issue

The Two books of Revelation. Is God lying to us through science if He created things that look old/ mature? Does the book of creation (general revelation) lie? Is any supernatural act of God (a miracle) a lie of nature? No, Because God said He is a supernatural being and He can act supernaturally - superseding natural processes, laws, our currently observed reality.
This is an often used argument against rapid creation or young earth worldview. Often used by Hugh Ross at Reasons to Believe, Biologos, etc.

If things have the appearance of age- being fully formed and functioning, God is not lying to us, because he has revealed his supernatural nature and supernatural ability to create fully formed functioning systems that defy naturalistic process, aka the miracles of Jesus and OT.
A great article on the “Two Books…” http://www.jasonlisle.com/2017/03/10/the-two-book-fallacy-again/#more-278

Which leads us to ...
Science is a handicapped observational system, and can not observe all of reality.
Scientists of two hundred + years ago could not observe deep space, microscopic worlds, UV light, infrared, radio waves, etc. Were these things not real, just because humans at the time could not observe them. If you’re a naturalistic, materialistic scientist - NP evolutionist, than those things weren't real. For them man determines reality. We have built machines to stretch our observational horizons, but how much more is there to observe? Is the supernatural, God, other dimensions, etc just the not yet observed. The Bible claims that humans originally could observe the spiritual dimensions, but have lost that ability due to rebellion, separations and degeneration.
Science, the collected and tested observations of humanity is extremely frail, susceptible to politicising agendas and can be wiped out by a burp of the earth, just ask the scientist of Pompeii.
The “knowledge” of Science is ever changing and overturned, It is time to act with humility when it comes to science.

Natural Progressive Evolutionists are supernaturalists too, in many of their origins beliefs.
NPE believe life came from non-life, a process that defies natural and scientific laws.
They believe the universe came from nothing, stars form from dust clouds, dark matter, dark energy and many other things that have never been observed, tested and often defy natural scientific laws must exist or have happened to fit their theories.

The best scientific arguments I have found for supernatural creation and "young" life on earth.

Greater Ancestors: The fossil record shows that the same creatures we have alive today were bigger, better, stronger in the past. The Ancestral creatures lived in an environment superior to ours that allowed optimal genetic expression. http://greaterancestors.com/greater-animals/ http://greaterancestors.com/
Genetic Entropy or degenerative evolution: Detrimental mutations are building up in creatures, including humans and will eventually cause their extinction. Genetic information on the whole allowing for adaptation and speciation is being destroyed or lost - Chetas as exact clones, etc. Combined with the tuning, stasis and stripping power of natural selection, creatures lose features they do not need to survive, like fish in caves who have lost eyes and skin pigmentation or the dayfly which has lost it’s mouth are just a few examples. http://www.originsunited.com/degeneration-the-end-of-evolution-theory.html
The Coelacanth invalidates the current evolutionary interpretation of the fossil record. The fossil record tells you when a creature was last fossilized, not when it went extinct. The coelacanth disappeared from the EV fossil record about 80 million years ago, but was found alive in 1970. Absence from the fossil record, which is actually just a jumbled book, does not mean absence of the creature. There are hundreds of living fossils that re-illustrate this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTWZJBXAZJA Fossil record busted! Ep 37, season 2 finale of Genesis Week, with wazooloo/Ian Juby
The code/ program/ language of life DNA is more complex than anything we can create, as a multi layered program which can code in multiple directions, and illustrates that information always proceeds from intelligence. http://creation.com/four-dimensional-genome http://www.icr.org/article/three-dimensional-dna-code-defies-evolution/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-genome-s-spirals-loops-and-globules-come-into-4-d-view-video/
The amazing amount of evidence for catastrophism from geology, history, and other learning disciplines. http://www.catastrophism.net/ http://amazingdiscoveries.org/33 http://www.icr.org/worldwide-flood http://christianevidences.org/scientific-evidence/palaeontology/fossil-record-and-catastrophism/ http://www.icr.edu/biblical-catastrophism-and-geology http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/catastrophism.html http://michael.oards.net/pdf/PostFloodBoundary/Chp27Version2.pdf https://www.facebook.com/pg/genesisweekTV/photos/?tab=album&album_id=185335558288343 http://michael.oards.net/pdf/Book/Chapter32.pdf http://www.icr.org/article/8503/

What Questions does this issue raise for you? Where to you see the evidence leading? I would love to hear your comments and you can find more great material at www.OriginsUnited.com/books and www.searchcreation.org

Another great book on Naturalism / Atheism
https://pilgrimsrock.com/products/booksbycraigbiehl/the-box/#.WMQoBVXyvRY

Old Vs.Young: could it be both?
Time Dilation Theory
http://creation.com/new-time-dilation-helps-creation-cosmology
http://www.icr.org/article/new-creationist-cosmology-no-time-at/
Rebuttal
http://www.reasons.org/articles/the-unraveling-of-starlight-and-time

Future blog related topics
How is the age of the earth and the universe determined naturalistically.
interesting scientific evidence for young universe and earth
interesting scientific evidence for old earth / universe

Educational fair use / non-profit
Images used in this blog are for educational purposes and no profit is being made from the use of these images.

]]><![CDATA[5 Reasons the Flat Earth is Foolishness: And the valuable lessons we can learn in understanding God’s word and world in context]]>Mon, 18 Jul 2016 07:45:06 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/5-reasons-the-flat-earth-is-foolishness-and-the-valuable-lessons-we-can-learn-in-understanding-gods-word-and-world-in-context

5 Reasons the Flat Earth is Foolishness
And the valuable lessons we can learn in understanding God’s word and world in context

There is a disease of the mind that is at best foolishness and worse doctrine of demons, that distorts the word and intent of the Bible and turns it into literate literalism. This is the flat earth dogma which was popularized by Washington Irving and propagated through public/government schools. Recently it has blemished may a facebook page. I welcome new ideas and dialogue, but have to call out fool's errands and say this theory/dogma looks an awful lot like a dog returning to its vomit. For those who have been genuinely pulled into this vortex of foolishness, I respect you, but I can not respect foolish ideas which lead to setting oneself on a course of scriptural misinterpretation and literacy. See reason # 5.
Men more learned and eloquent than I have addressed this issue, but I hope that I can add to the pot in a delicious stew of rational worship of our Creator where He receives all the Glory for his supernatural creation.

5 Reasons the Flat Earth is Foolishness
1. Observation destroys a flat earth
2. Physics destroys a flat earth
3. Eclipsed destroy a flat earth
4. The ancients and their knowledge destroy a flat earth
5. The Bible destroys a flat earth

1. Observation destroys a flat earth
   One can physically observe the other planets in our solar system. I have observed the moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as well as the sun through a powerful telescope and they are all spheres. It is not an optical illusion, and being an artist in training, I have drawn many spheres vs. other shapes. So why would it make sense that the only non-spherical object / planet in our solar system is earth.

2. Physics destroys a flat earth
   Any non solid, liquidus form forms a sphere as it falls or especially if it is in a vacuum. Physics / gravity 101 tells us that the natural shape of an liquidus object is a sphere. Increase the volume to that of the earth and you definitely get a sphere based on physics. Many of the earthquakes on earth are caused by the gravity of earth pulling in on the crust and equalizing the mass and physical pressures. Yes the earth is spinning/ rotating, and that deforms the earth a bit. But not enough to create a sphere by centrifugal force. Speed up a liquidus sphere’s rotation and you get a disk, but it is highly unstable. Flat, oblong “liquid” disks are highly unstable when spinning because the centrifugal force is much stronger on the outside than inside. Just as kids on a merry-go-round. The outer part of the disk wants to fly off overcoming the weekend gravitational forces. Slow down the spinning liquidus disk and it wants to collapse upon itself. The earth would do the same if it were a spinning disk - a flat earth.

3. Eclipsed destroy a flat earth
   The ancients observed eclipses and concluded spheres, so can you. Two kind of eclipses. A lunar eclipse and a solar eclipse. A solar eclipse is when the moon is between the earth and sun, thus blocking out the sun. next we see the shape of the earth against the moon when the earth gets between the moon and sun. for that to stay a perfect circle you either need a sphere or the flat earth disk to always be facing the moon, and the other side the sun. If not you would get a shadow on the moon that would reveal a disk, not a sphere.

4. The ancients and their knowledge destroy a flat earth
   It is well documented that the ancients knew the earth to be a sphere, and the Hebrew people didn’t live in a bubble, They would have had access to the knowledge of the times and were no backwoods - well even that analogy would be an insult to backwoods people who are pretty brilliant compared to most city dwellers who couldn't survive a day in the woods.

at least since the time of Aristotle, educated people knew the world was a sphere. And a generation after Aristotle, in the third century BC (well before the time of the New Testament), Eratosthenes computed the earth’s size.
https://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/answers-in-genesis-and-the-flat-earth/
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/is-the-earth-flat/

   The flat earth theory and fiction was propagated and popularized by atheists seeking to slander the Bible and Christianity.

a myth, as documented by historian Jeffery Burton Russel (a man who is certainly no friend of Christians or Creationists!) in his book “The Flat Earth Myth.” The “story “ of the flat Earth that permeates government education was a fictional invention of an American Writer of Fairy Tales. His name was Washington Irving. In the early 1800’s
Originally at: The Flat Earth….again…. | Genesis Week

According to Stephen Jay Gould, “there never was a period of ‘flat earth darkness’ among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth’s roundness as an established fact of cosmology.” Historians of science David Lindberg and Ronald Numbers point out that “there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth’s] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference”.
Originally at: The Flat Earth….again…. | Genesis Week
http://www.genesisweek.com/the-flat-earth-again/
CrEvo Rant #271, “The Flat Earth     Originally at: The Flat Earth….again…. | Genesis Week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZrLMhjOPPM

5. The Bible destroys a flat earth
   I am going to say this again. The flat earth theory and fiction was originally propagated and popularized by atheists seeking to slander the Bible and Christianity. It saddens me that people claiming to believe in the Creator and the Bible are following in their footsteps.
They do this by taking away the beautiful poetic, metaphorical, similes and hyperboles found within the Biblical literature. They take passages and words out of context, and the original language. We also don't allow them to be ancient people who didn’t know everything, and insist that everything in the Bible has to line up with scientific, logical thought progressions. Let me give you an example. Ancients placed the seat of the emotions in the bosom or gut. We place it in the heart.
“I just feel it in my heart, or I love you from my heart.” Those aren’t scientifically accurate statements, but we don't call people liars when they say that.
Another example. Yesterday my boy and I were playing outside and suddenly it got darker.
“What is that Trevor asked?”
“Oh, the sun just went behind the clouds,” I replied.
I just lied, and was totally unscientific and made a non-real statement… to my kid! For shame.
“Clouds got between the sun and the earth or us.” - just doesn't have the same ring to it.   Same thing with sunrises and sunsets. The sun isn’t doing anything it is the earth rotating. Should we call them earthrises and earthsets?

   The ancients and Bible authors used the same language to describe the earth and their experiences. The weren't writing scientific, peer reviewed literature. Thank goodness or we wouldn't read it…
They were writing for message and impact inspired by God’s Spirit, which did not override their culture, history or education. God works in and through his imperfect people and still does, which is why I could be wrong, and I seek the input of others to correct me, but I learn, grow and discover God’s truth and reality.
   I couldn't agree more with a comment posted after a “Bible teaches flat earth” article by SY

...those passages don’t imply a flat earth. Much of the problem is from translation: in the original (I had to suffer through twelve years of a Hebrew education), the word “eretz” is used, which your translations render as “earth.” That’s quite poetic, but not terribly accurate. “Eretz” is much closer to “land” than earth, hence references to “eretz yisroel” (Land of Israel) or “eretz mitzrayim” (Land of Egypt). An alternate word used in some of those passages (e.g., the passages you cited in Daniel) is “arae,” with more of a connotation of “ground,” but also meaning “land.” The word usually used to indicate the entire world is “olam,” not “eretz.”
And, of course, there is still the typical fundamentalist view that my ancestors were too stupid to use allegory or metaphor in their writing…
https://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2011/05/07/the-earth-is-flat/

I do agree that the ancient Israelites had a somewhat flat earth supernatural or spiritual cosmology as pointed out by Hebrew scholar Dr. Michael S. Heser.   But I believe it can be argued that it was not their complete view on physical -planetary cosmology.
http://drmsh.com/christians-who-believe-the-earth-is-really-flat-does-it-get-any-dumber-than-this/

Some examples from the Bible used to support a flat earth fallacy and why it doesn't.

Four Areas of argument

The earth is flat
The earth has corners
The earth has pillars -- hint pillars refers to mountains in ancient context
The earth doesn’t move -- neither do people who believe and trust in God

Thanks to https://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2011/05/07/the-earth-is-flat/ for saving me the work on getting all these together. I actually thought you would find some verses that say the earth is literally flat, but it never says that… literally. The author of this sight has his comments in red, my rebuttal when needed follows.

If you take the below passages literally you must also agree that a person who trusts in God can not be moved - and I can attest that I do move, but am never moved in my belief and confidence in my Creator and Lord. ...Hope you get that one.   See all the verses about immovability and un-sheakability of those who trust God.

Those who trust in the LORD Are as Mount Zion, which cannot be moved but abides forever. Psalm 125:1
14 Bible versed about not being moved, applying to people   http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Not-Moved
To understand “literally” I suggest a great article.
Here’s how I would lay the groundwork for an answer. If I’m asked if I take the Bible literally, I would say I think that’s the wrong question. I’d say instead that I take the Bible in its ordinary sense, that is, I try to take the things recorded there with the precision I think the writer intended. https://bible.org/article/taking-bible-literally

The earth is flat - has ends

Genesis 28:12   And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. [The ladder must be on a fixed, flat surface.] original Flat earth comment - I respond. Ladder in ancient context could refer to a ziggurat, and this is a supernatural event
Deuteronomy 28:49   The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deuteronomy 28:64   And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other;
Deuteronomy 33:17      His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: [The unicorn reference is a bonus.] My reply. Siberian unicorn discovered, Um… they were real creatures, and There are single horn Rhinoceros as well. Hyperbole - metaphor anyone?
1 Samuel 2:10
The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth;

Psalm 67:7   God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him.
Psalm 72:8   He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
Psalm 74:17   Thou hast set all the borders of the earth:
Isaiah 5:26   And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: [The earth must be flat for all to see that ensign.] my reply - again a supernatural event in progress? - most likely
Jeremiah 25:33   And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
Daniel 4:11 (repeated in Daniel 4:20)   The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven,and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: [The tree must be on a flat earth to be visible to the end of the earth.]   my response - Has all the earth seen Jesus - Heard of Him or had that chance see Romans 1&2 - Yes. So prophecy fulfilled.
Psalm 22:27   All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD:

   The whole earth covered?

Luke 23:44   And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [The earth must be flat to be all dark at one time.] Earth = land of Israel - no problem here.
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.    Matthew 27:45
And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. Mark 15:33
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Matthew 4:8 [That mountain must be on a flat earth.]   Um , supernatural being, and supernatural activity in view here.
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Luke 4:5

The earth has corners
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth,

The earth has pillars and foundations
1 Samuel 2:8   for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.
Job 9:6   Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. [A reference to the usually unmovable earth, but it must be flat to sit on pillars.]
Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. [Another reference to the unmovable earth, also flat to sit on foundations.] same must apply to humans believing in god...

Pillars = mountains which have foundations sunk into the earth - especially true of metamorphic volcanic mountains. Also to an ancient a volcanic mountain spewing smoke creates a column, a pillar.
Foundations = 1.rock below mountains, and 2. Sub crustal caverns explained by the Hydroplate Theory https://www.youtube.com/embed/3CzFcPkop84
http://www.creationscience.com/            http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview.html

The earth doesn’t move

Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: Psalm 96:10

Psalm 93:1   the world also is established, that it cannot be moved. [Not a flat-earth passage, but nevertheless interesting.]
Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: Psalm 96:10
1 Chronicles 16:30   Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 93:1   The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96:10   Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
Psalm 104:5   Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Amazing things the Bible does get scientifically right, even before “modern science” discovered it.
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientific_Facts_in_the_Bible:_100_Reasons_to_Believe_the_Bible_is_Supernatural_in_Origin
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html
http://www.bible.ca/b-science-evidences.htm

Oh and science is a handicapped observation system. See my blog article for that fun read.
http://www.originsunited.com/blog/science-the-handicapped-observational-system

So.. What do you think? Has this blog helped you understand the Bible as inspiration, as literature, and the worldview of the ancient people chosen by god to begin his family on earth, - resulting in Christ and his church?

]]><![CDATA[SETI and the search for Alien life]]>Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:41:50 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/april-29th-2016

SETI and the search for Alien life:
How the Creator of the Bible really is the best answer to the search for extra-terrestrial intelligence.

Recently I posted a meme on Facebook. A fun but dangerous thing to do. Well dangerous if it challenges certain cultural traditions of what I call “fossilized science” aka materialism.
Here is the meme. No not that bad you say, maybe a bit controversial. Well I got a comment, which was great, someone saw it and it made them think, - my whole purpose.

“That's... entirely not how it works.”
Then their reaction made me think. Because I really think this little meme is accurate and what’s more, scientifically accurate. Let’s explore why. And please if you're reading this - comment, join the fray. Jump in because the waters of brain activity are a bubblin.

First - let's find out the mission of SETI as they say it.
Our mission is to explore, understand, and explain the origin and nature of life in the universe, and to apply the knowledge gained to inspire and guide present and future generations. We have a passion for discovery, and for sharing knowledge as scientific ambassadors to the public, the press, and the government. http://www.seti.org/about-us

Wow, I actually really like that. It is what every Christian (lover of the Creator) should be about as well. But there is a bit of evasion in their mission statement because the acronym of their name is the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence - non earth life - to “explore, understand, and explain the origin and nature of life in the universe” that means a belief in life outside earth,of which there is little to no observable, repeatable, testable scientific proof. Or is there?
An interesting observation - they tie life to intelligence… and they should. We have never come across non- “intelligent” life. Well, some teenager may qualify. I am of course making the exception of single cell bacteria etc., though they are very complex communicative organisms on their own level. Because it is a scientific and natural law that information (life) comes from intelligence. Show me any example of information not born of intelligence. Well, um…. DNA ,crystal structure… nature's laws. My point exactly. What birthed them? Every time we can find the cause of information it has been inteligence, and thus this is what drives SETI. It also drove great scientists who believed in a Creator revealed in nature and in the Bible. Even though SETI has a large budget, when it comes to aliens / ET intelligent life, they are thinking way too small. They are looking for material beings, what I call in-dimensional beings like ourselves. They have ruled out inter-dimensional beings and Extra-dimensional beings like God.

But Seti is looking for scientific (material) evidence of life/intelligence in the universe. You Bible, creation people just live off faith.

Sorry to spoil your thought. Not true. Our belief, faith, trust is based on real observations, evidence, science and more. It is the more part that gets to some people.
But everyone is a supernaturalist, see my blog, Science: the HANDICAPPED observational system and CH 2 of The Supernaturals, and Ian Juby’s video… link below.

Tried to find immage source... used for educational purposes

Why God, the Creator described it the Bible is the answer to SETI?
SETI is looking for some kind of intentional communication from an intelligence - a being. Would they know it if it slapped them across the face? Or died for them on a cross?
Christianity claims that an outer-dimensional (not just off earth) intelligence (a tri-uen being) has made contact with humanity. You may not have heard it put that way in sunday school.

Let's examine this entity (who and what it claims to be), and then the evidence for its existence and communication with us. Lots of amazing books have done this- this is just a summary. See the bibliography-references for some of these books.
This entity - being claims to be tri-une. One essence in three beings. So much in harmony and relationship and essence that they are indeed one. Yet they can interact and communicate as three separate beings. Ok am I wrong or is that not “alien” enough for you. That is really out there and “other” to the type of earthbound beings we know. This tri-une being is even more alien than the aliens we invent in our science-fiction movies and books.
Ok, moving on. This being claims to be super intelligent, to be the origin of all life, time space, matter and dimensions of reality. Basically this entity claims to be the origin or source of reality as we know it so far. That is a PRETTY big claim. That’s a pretty cool extraterrestrial entity. We will see how this being backs it up its claims. I would call this being the Creator or God, or better yet the Godhead or Yahweh, the I AM, but they you would get all religious on me and stop thinking of this as an alien entity.

In one of this entity’s communications it claims...

To inhabit eternity
To know the end from the beginning, aka to know the future and its events
To know but not determine human events
To be the author and creator of all forms of life, earth, humans
To be the creator of other life forms - intelligent beings, inte-dimensional - spiritual - supernatural beings.
To be able to communicate directly and indirectly with humans
To have left its realm and become human, becoming separated from it’s self the other beings
To have died, and come back life in a new form - human, but outer-dimensional - spirit empowered
To be able to birth in humans a new nature that in the metamorphosis of death will birth a new type of Entity(Spirit) empowered human that can never die, and is indwelled by the spirit of that Entity so that they can have free will and relationship with that Being, yet never be in rebellion or out of the will of that Entity.

What kind of being could be the origin of earth bound biological life?
Peter Scheele explores this from a genetic and biological perspective in his book Degeneration: the end of evolution theory. http://www.originsunited.com/degeneration-the-end-of-evolution-theory.html

The DNA is only the physical carrier of the intelligence and knowledge that is hidden in it, it is not that intelligence itself, just as a computer program is the physical carrier of the intelligence put in to it but is not actually intelligent itself. Pg 117

12.2 A creator?
Regarding that alien, there are a couple of things we can derive from ‘his’ creation:

In the first place, it is intelligent, or it could never have put the intelligence, the information and the structure into the DNA that is now present. The extent of that intelligence is exponential to ours. It has to know everything about atoms, molecules, chemistry, and so on, and master them all completely. Let us say, just to keep it simple, that his intelligence is 20300 times the sum of all the intelligences of all the biochemists that ever lived. We cracked and hacked the code, but he (or she or it?) designed it. And then you in order to do this, he (or or she or it) had to be in complete command of the matter.
This alien is not-organic! Because it has designed or programmed organic life itself, it cannot be organic. In the same way, the programmer of the program code (zeros and ones) is not a program of zeros and ones himself. The programmer could have used another program, but he cannot be made of zeros and ones himself. Therefore, organic life simply cannot be designed by another organic life form. In the same way we can state that the programmer of life is itself not subject to what we call ‘death’, since ‘death’ is a typical property of organical life. We could go one like this for a while…
It is non-sexual. Sexuality is a characteristic of some organic life. Bacteria are neither male nor female. Sex is a feature that is entwined in our lives. The programmer of the DNA is responsible for programming sex(uality). It will no more be sexual than it will be organic.
It is at least personal, or has a personality. The maker of something is always more than its creation; it is never less or it could not have created it. People are intelligent and have a personality. The programmer of life is also at least ‘some kind of’ ‘personal’ it can never be just an intelligent force. This immediately causes a problem since ‘it’ is non-sexual and ‘he’ is at the same time personal. So, do we use ‘it’, ‘him’, or ‘her’ to refer to him (?)? Not using a word that already entails a lot of meaning, prejudice, and/or association like God, alien, etc., I will call this ‘entity’ the Creator. Should I write that with a lowercase or a capital C? Allow me to use a capital. The Creator made us. We can show at least a bit of respect. Also, I have to make a choice about which pronoun I will use to indicate him. Forgive me for the shortcomings of our language, but I am choosing for the third person masculine (probably because I am male myself, and maybe because we are used to doing it that way.)

There we are with this intelligent, non-organic, non-sexual, not mortal, but personal Creator®.

Geneticist co-inventor of the gene gun Dr. J.C. Sanford shows that all of life is genetically degenerating and thus must have had a supernatural origin in his book Genetic Entropy.

Ian Juby in his Youtube show Genesis Week shows how material evolutionist believe in processes that defy natural and scientific laws or can not be observed by science like the origin of life, informations systems like DNA arising from - well minerals, the origins of stars, the origin of the universe, dark matter and dark energy to name a few. These would be beliefs in the super-natural, on par with a christian's belief in God or miracles. Both are supernaturalists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLzj_dt1Jg&feature=youtu.be      episode 24 season 3
http://www.allreadable.com/21a82dGo     readabel transcript of the show
http://www.allreadable.com/95a98mGQ     readabel transcript of the show

What kind of communication has this entity sent?

How does this Being back up it’s claims to be the source - an outer-dimensional being
It sees the past, present and future,because it exists outside of them.
The biggest is Prophecy - seen in Biblical records
The eye witness accounts of supernatural acts from old and new testaments and from people to today.
The scientific information found in the Bible that precedes their discovery by ancient or modern science, for example currents in the ocean. http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html
https://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

Lastly the witness of nature is one of theis Entities greatest communications, and that is what my site, www.originsunited.com is all about.
Romans 1:20 – For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.
So start exploring and I hope you discover that learning is worship and communication with the most incredible alien out there.

You can make contact…

Your fellow explorer of the Supernatural and Origins 4-29-2016
David Harrison   www.OriginsUnited.com

References and sources
God’s not Dead - the book
Case for a Creator by Lee Strobal
Almost any book by a christian or creationest on the topic.
Creation.com    Ian Juby Genesis week

]]><![CDATA[Superheros are intolerant... and we love them for it]]>Sun, 17 Apr 2016 19:17:10 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/superheros-are-intolerant-and-love-them-for-itSuperheros are intolerant... and we love them for it
It has been rightly said that if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. In our growing totalitarianistic - aka “tolerant”culture, where we are told to tolerate everything, except those who believe things from the Bible, It is a surprising yet not-thought-out phenomena that we love Superheroes.

You see superheroes aren’t politically correct and are incredibly intolerant. Some people feel the need to express themselves through theft, destruction, taking over the world, and using bathrooms not meant for them, and who are we to say that is “wrong”. Since in a relativistic world harm and wrong are just perceptions. If you think I’m exaggerating watch the video from a college campus on how social relativism is turning our brains to mush. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/434158/watch-college-kids-cant-explain-why-short-white-man-isnt-tall-asian-woman Thanks to Reza Zadeh for posting this.

Superheros stand for something. They don’t tolerate evil. They use equal and opposite force, and we call that Good.   Kind of reminds me of God in the Old Testament. Batman doesn’t give the Joker a break cause he had a traumatic upbringing. Superheroes live by standards that they consider absolute. I think that is why we love them, and the plethora of movies surrounding them are so popular. I think that is why Jesus is popular, except Jesus asks something of us. We have to join him or reject him. Superheroes represent truth, but Jesus claimed to be the TRUTH. The Source of life itself.
Jesus forces a choice on us, unlike superheroes. That is also why He and we are often hated.

CHALLENGE!!!
Who is your favorite super hero and how do they reflect the truths found in Jesus and the Bible?
Stay tuned, I will be talking about how we will become super-human. It’s not through evolution… sorry X-men. So keep your eyes peeled on the sky, cause you never know Who is going to show up… and I hope He does soon.

To explore more and why I says what I say, download my free E-book THE Supernaturals   at http://www.originsunited.com/the-supernaturals.html

Your fellow explorer of the Supernatural and Origins                          4-17-16
David Harrison   www.OriginsUnited.com

]]><![CDATA[The Original Walking Dead ]]>Tue, 12 Apr 2016 01:58:23 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/the-original-walking-dead

by David Harrison www.OriginsUnited.com

Before the movie, before the comic book, before the TV show, there was Paul and his letter to the Ephesians where he describes the original walking dead.

   My friend Jim loves the Walking Dead TV show, Not so much for the zombie appeal, but for the community that is created both on and off the screen. We have had many conversations about how we were once the walking dead. No, not actual brain hunger driven zombies, but how we were dead, separated from the life of God, once walking around under the power of death unbelieving zombies. We still drag around part of that ‘old man’ and have to continually put that rotting part of us to death, and submit and abide in the life of Christ.
   But let me take you back to one of the original exposes on the walking dead in the New Testament book of Ephesians 2:1-10. Paul says

1 You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience. 3 We also all once lived among them in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.4 But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus;8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.
http://ebible.org/web/

We were once the walking dead, spiritually speaking, and even physically, in that we were under the power of death. We look alive, but inside we carry a sin virus that will end in our total death, aka separation from God if something drastic is not done.
   Unlike in the TV show, there is a cure, there is hope for this walking dead man. I have chosen to follow the original ‘undead’ risen- resurrected Jesus. He defeated the power of death and has become the ‘firstborn’ among many. He lead the way out of death and in Him we can become alive and walk in life, not death.
   So when you see a t-shirt, or the TV show about “the walking dead”, remember Paul said it first and there is hope for all who walk in death. Where do you see the effects of death in your own life? How have you seen that reversed by inviting in the Life of God, and embracing truth over lies?                                                                                                4-11-16

To learn more about our Origins, Identity and Purpose in a supernatural Creator
visit www.OriginsUnited.com
and follow my blog, etc. by e-mailing me @ originsunited@gmail.com

you were dead in transgressions and sins, in which you once walked

]]><![CDATA[Letter to an Atheist]]>Wed, 24 Dec 2014 01:33:21 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/letter-to-an-atheist

What we do in life does not echo in eternity.
It dies a single sputtering flame enveloped in dark chaos and time.

You my material atheist friend may claim that I live with a fairy-tale creator god in my anti-scientific fantasy fevered brain.

You may say I’m selling dangerous fairy tales by design where men are more than evolved monkey beasts, where a supernatural creator god gave choice and consequence to free, but not independent beings for the love and hope of relationship. Yes, I will tell any who listen that we are the walking dead who descend into entropy degeneration with every step of time every new generation accumulating deadly mutations. Your heroes of chance, mutation and natural selection are actually children of death masquerading heroes to natural progressive evolution so fanatically taught to our children in government education.

I freely admit, I am peddling hope. I am selling with my every breath the hope of a restored humanity on a restored earth made possible by a restored relationship with our outer-dimensional immortal supernatural Creator.

In your pell-mill flight from any higher accountability you make yourselves gods; who sell promises of illumination, immortality and intolerant dictatorial ruler-ship to any fool who bypassed the following thoughts.

If I evolved from lower creatures in whom I put no faith or trust in their thoughts or convictions. Why do I put such absolute trust in my primate evolved brain.

If everything has arisen by time and chance then there is no reason for pain and suffering. they are as valid and meaningless as pleasure and justice. In fact I must steal concepts of meaning, reason, good, purpose, evil, etc. from other universes / worldviews to make arguments against those very same worldview systems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvRy6AjeyLc

If I hold true to materialism or naturalism, I must call on non-natural “supernatural” processes to manifest my existence by bringing the universe into existence from nothing, Life coming from non- life and information, design, and complexity from nothingness, no mind or intelligence. In fact these “fantasy origins” defy known scientific laws, and all the scientific knowledge we do know, not what we don’t know. They are science stoppers.

If these are the thoughts you bypass on your way to “scientific godhood”, my materialist friend Than who plays the fool with self-contradiction. Your destiny awaits - here is death, degeneration and chance to usher you into oblivion.
What grand aspirations, “Let’s survive.” or “Maybe science fiction will save us?”

who then is really living in scientific reality?

And if I am wrong than Mother Teresa, Ted Bundy, Muhammad, Buddha, Adolf Hitler, Martin Luther king , the beggars in India and the Hollywood stars , you and I will all be worms food for all our wistful imaginings. We will be a whisper remembered by none. We the stuff of stars and refuse, the remnants of a big bang will face extinction with nothing more to stop it than our next breath.

Your friend, for an enemy would not warn you. Have a nice day.

David Harrison

a restored son of God, who will rule the cosmos with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ - Emanuel who walks with us always. the I Am, Alpha and Omega.

9-2014

]]><![CDATA[Science: the HANDICAPPED observational system]]>Wed, 24 Dec 2014 01:06:47 GMThttps://www.originsunited.com/blog/science-the-handicapped-observational-system

What is Science behind the definition of things that we can observe, reproduce, and test, aka. falsify.
To put it simply, Science is the collected and tested observations of humanity. But what most people don't think to ask is... "Can we observe all of reality?"

because all science is based on human observation.

I will show you that human observation is handicapped, and more correctly it is broken and degenerating.

Materialism is the belief that if something can not be observed, and tested by the scientific method it does not exist, is not real, or at the least is not scientific.

Materialism is the foundational view for atheism.

Lets's get into some science.

Can you observe ultraviolet light, infrared light, x-rays, microscopic worlds, deep space? I could go on...
you will say, "No, but we have built machines to broaden or extend our observational abilities or horizons."
But
What of the materialist scientist of 200 years ago? They could not observe these things, so by the definitions of materialism, they were not real. We could not observe them.

How many more things will we discover that are "not real" in the future. Materialistic science is actually a progress stopper. It is anti- science. What if all the scientists of hundreds of years ago said. "Well this has never been observed, I can't be real. You should just stick to real science."
The Supernatural world view is actually a science generator. It calls for more exploration, imagination, and never arrogantly saying that we know it all.

Another example:

Big Bang cosmologists claim there is dark matter, and dark energy, for their model to be viable. but those things have never been observed. So your telling me that these "scientists" believe in lots and lots of stuff they have never observed and can not scientifically verify?
How is this different than claiming a supernatural being caused life to be. Life comes from life. This is the Law of Biogenesis. The Supernatural Creation model actually follows scientific law.
Does the Atheistic, materialistic theory of abiogenis follow natural and scientific laws. Hum?
No. They claim life comes from non-life by chance un-directed processes. This has never been observed or tested and is therefore a claim that supersedes the natural, and is by definition a supernatural process.

The origin of the universe from nothing
Information, design and complexity aka. codes or programs arise from nothing

These are all supernatural claims and do not conform to any scientific observations, laws or principles.

Have a nice day. Try to think some.

]]>

So if you believe all this about the supernatural acts of Jesus ministry on earth, than why don’t those same principles apply to his supernatural acts of creation found in Genesis?

What we do in life does not echo in eternity. It dies a single sputtering flame enveloped in dark chaos and time.

What we do in life does not echo in eternity.
It dies a single sputtering flame enveloped in dark chaos and time.